Hold down to survive smash attacks at **~200%**#892

No but seriously.. this is just holding down AND with no DI.

“Just use vertical moves”
“It’s not good at high %”
“Just hit them with smash attacks”

These are all reasons used to make holding down more balanced, except none of that actually matters apparently? Holding down just works?

Tested on Orcane too, survives at 165% just by holding down, with no DI.

Grow up

I don’t remember if I held down here. Do the arrows show up if you only ASDI, or do you need to SSDI?

That’s called ground tech or Amsah tech. You need to ASDI and buffer tech (and DI to increase its possible range). Green arrows are CC, White SSDI.

When you’re past tumble %’s, every time you CC you could’ve as well just shielded instead and make a reversal. CC on 200% doesn’t matter

I think all this proves is that this works as a defensive option in a very specific situation.
Shielding and parrying would have also allowed Kragg to survive, but just because it helps you survive a specific scenario doesn’t mean it is a problem.
Holding down is not something you can do frequently because it’s only useful in anticipation of getting hit when there’s no other option and you have to react quickly. In a real match, Kragg would probably be losing if he kept doing this.

In the next nolt I’m going to specifically ask for CC Knockback reduction being less impactful, specifically being changed from 0.8x reduction to 0.85x

Mixed with weird weight/gravity properties, like Kragg in the example, makes some weird situations where a 20% “knockback reduction” translates to a much bigger impact in practice, in this case a move that would normally kill at like 135% now kills at ~185%+

That 50-damage threshold increase is crazy.

And a shield can make you survive the same move at 999%. There’s no reason to crouch in this situation except like some really specific cases which a normal player would never predict and utilize

That’s true for how the game works right now, but I’m saying the game shouldn’t work this way. It should be changed to reward the above Ranno play with a kill.

@weaselsnore #MinaForRivals2

“But let’s imagine we don’t have it. Then this techchase is a 50/50 on whether they tech the Dstrong or DI away (no tech) a Dtilt. (Teching Dtilt kills them right after, not teching Dstrong kills them immediately)”

They wouldn’t be able to tech the dstrong if we don’t have it.

I think just like ranno read the tech read, the fors reacted/read the fstrong fast enough to amsah tech

@biobirb
I was speaking about Ustrong. There was a guaranteed kill with Ustrong.
In a situation where your opponent can tech any move (they can’t, it’s a hypothesis), you are faced with a 50:50: Hit them with a fast recovery or strong move that is slow. If they tech the strong - they live. If they tech the Dtilt - they get comboed right after and die. If they don’t tech the Dtilt - they DI it away and live. If they don’t tech Dstrong - they die

@weaselsnore #MinaForRivals2 I think I get what you’re saying. IMO in this case considering the Fors could already do no tech slideoff to ledge, and it’s their fault for getting hit into that position in the first place, I think the skill issue was more on the Fors than the Ranno and the game should reflect that.

And it did by rewarding Ranno with Ustrong kill confirm they wasted on a 50/50

I thought we were talking about if they didn’t have upstrong lol.

Edit: Also in general whether they can upstrong isn’t really relevant here? Like the topic is on whether they should be able to amsah tech the dstrong in the first place.

Just to add it to the pile: while I do have my concessions with Floorhug (where you SDI into the ground AFTER you get hit, and that is the mechanic that gets ignored by Strongs), what you’re experiencing is Crouch Cancel, where you get hit while holding Down, while actionable, and BEFORE you get hit (and Strongs don’t ignore this mechanic).

And in terms of visuals, Crouch Cancel is what makes all of those downwards arrows appear, while Floorhug will simply make your character flash blue. The latter isn’t exactly clear or easy to react to, unfortunately.

I’d say that CC is fine as a mechanic, because in any situation where you could use it, you could also do anything else, including Shield which is Frame 1. You have to make a conscious decision to take a hit to the face instead of defending yourself, just for a not-even guaranteed chance of being able to counter-attack the opponent.

For a good example of this in action, try recreating the exact scene that you initially posted, but have Kragg perform a taunt first. Since he’s not actionable from the taunt, CC won’t activate, and since it’s a Strong, Floorhug won’t activate either, and Kragg should die on schedule.