Why does Zetter get to do ALL of that?#868

Salt post, but this character just seems to have so many ‘bonuses’ stuffed into his kit.
For instance, Shine is a fantastic tool for setting up KO’s, but it’s ALSO a great combo tool in itself, and it’s ALSO an edgeguarding tool, it can ALSO be charged, for a stronger hit, and timing mixups. “Oh but it’s like Fox shine from Melee and it can do a lot of that stuff too” - Zetter does NOT feel like combo food the way Melee Fox does, in fact I don’t even think he’s that light? Lower end of middle weight-ish? Especially with the amount of recovery mixups he has compared to Fox - speaking of which,

Aerial down B spikes the opponent at relatively low percent, making it a huge reward edgeguarding tool! but it ALSO gives him his double jump back, making it a great recovery tool as well! It ALSO sets the opponent on fire, setting up for empowered strongs! But he can ALSO cancel it during the flip to give him a horizontal recovery as well! Yeah, Captain Falcon down B refreshes his double jump in melee too! But it’s not killing you at 50%. Falcon also does not have firefox, or a horizontal recovery tool. Zetter does. Yeah, his recovery is still very explotable and definitely a weakness of his - but when comparing it to Fox, I don’t think it justifies him having such an incredible tool as Shine. Especially because Zetter Shine makes all of his strong attacks empowered, Fox Shine doesn’t. Speaking of which,

Upstrong is a very powerful KO tool, especially with combust, it’s one of the strongest moves in the game, kills eaerlier than Lox strongs! But it ALSO combos out of his dash attack (sure it’s not true, but the fact he even has it as an option when the rest of the cast doesn’t). And it ALSO combos out of his throws, even at kill percents! And it ALSO combos out of shine, which sets up for the combust! But at low percents, it’s ALSO a combo tool, even combos into itself! Those same KO setups like Shine and throws ALSO work at low percents with Ustrong for combos! I don’t think any other character has a strong attack with as many setups, as much killpower, and versatility as Zetter Ustrong.
Not to say those are bad things! It just seems way overtuned compared to the rest of the cast’s tools. None of these things in a vacuum are a problem, a lot of the cast has cool stuff in their kit. However, when ALL these things are on ONE character, it feels like it adds up to be greater than the rest of the cast.

“oh but he had those things in Rivals 1” - yeah and in Smash 64 Fox lasers had hitstun like Falco’s from Melee - do we think Melee Fox should have it too for legacy reasons? I’m no game designer, but I think that would be too oppressive given the new engine, new mecahnics, and additions to the character.

The rest of the cast also has cool mechanics and multi-use moves with mixup potential, however in my opinion Zetter is like a Toolbox in a world full of Swiss Army Knives - he has plenty of tools for the job, and in a lot of ways the tools perform better than the Swiss Army Knife tools do.

IMO he has wayyyy too much ‘cannon’ to justify the amount of ‘glass’ he has. Feels like the Cannon has 3 different firing modes, a built in adjustable scope, recoil dampening, night vision, just so much STUFF.

Fire should be removed from you if you grab or pummel Zetter. Like it works with every other gimmick in this game (THIS IS FAKE GUYS STOP LIKING ME)

hecantkeepgettingawaywithit.gif

So I believe pummel does remove fire last I heard?
But the issue is that it’s so easy to re-apply fire and also so difficult/not worth it to go for pummel most situlations that it really doesn’t make a difference at all.

we need that one idea of rolling removing fire tbh-

Wait, pummeling indeed removes it… I love spreading misinformation. I think i never noticed it because of how easy it is to re-apply

Crazy to think after all the nerfs he got he’s still top tier. Also why has it been so long since a balance patch??