Kragg upB can kill him due to slideoff momentum#773

Really hoping this is unintended because holy cow. Not sure why upB doesn’t lock Kragg onto the pillar, at least until he gets hit or something

also unrelated but my game crashed when i pressed the emote button right as the game tried to transition from victory screen back to the ranked lobby. But i don’t have any footage or other info about that

Why should it? Everyone’s UpB is like that except Orcane. There’s only around 3 moves in the game that can stop KB velocity, that being Maypul tether, Oly gem dash and Orcane UpB

If you make Kragg pillar ignore KB velocity he will be able to easily survive hits above 200%

This interaction didn’t happen at 200%, it happened at 95%. We need a solution that’s more intuitive than “after cleanly surviving the hit, and after already spending your double jump, you can upB WITH the direction of the knockback and still turn your recovery move into a self-gimp wall of doom.” Surely we can figure something out that’s more intuitive and natural than this.

In rivals 1, if you pillar you are locked in place. The point isn’t to survive things you aren’t supposed to survive, because it only works when you’re already actionable and could’ve airdodged, double jumped, or sideB’ed. But that game doesn’t have grounded slideoffs that retain momentum like this so, ok, we have to let you be actionable outside of the slideoff without letting you instantly get back onstage. I see how it happened.

But why not just, make the pillar end up under you later? Have it track your horizontal position for slightly longer, or make it slower when you have momentum, or make him fall a little less quickly when he slides off the pillar mid-endlag, or something? There’s a whole spectrum of solutions BETWEEN ‘make kragg survive slideoffs til 500%’ and ‘let kragg’s recovery button unintuitively doom him in specific situations where he wasn’t even in any danger’, like happened here.

like, surely at this point in his animation, you would expect the pillar to be roughly centered on his body

but instead by the first frame he’s even touching the pillar it’s locked to a past location already, and he barely even touches the ground at all before he’s gone. And again, this is not at any sort of dangerous percent

The solution is to not use UpB before your KB velocity fades. This applies to every character, not just Kragg

Yes, i understand that this is how the game currently works. This is a development feedback board, not tips and tricks. Having seen this situation once I’m a lot more likely to survive it next time, but my issue is that it exists in the first place. My contention is that it’s poor & unnecessarily painful design, not that i think this situation was somehow unrecoverable.

Kragg was in zero danger here, even opting to upB away from stage rather than towards it. It’s EXTREMELY intuitive that in this spot, especially after already burning double jump, nothing bad could possibly go wrong. this upB is about as routine as fleet popping float or something with a bit of momentum remaining, and yet the punishment is several times worse.

It’s not even like Kragg had enough momentum to slide off of the entire pillar from the center. it straight up just spawned in the wrong place. In R1 Kragg ALWAYS ends up in the middle of the pillar. IMO, the least he could do in this game is start in the damn middle of the pillar, and if he has the momentum to slideoff from there, then i could live with that. But right now the punishment for upBing with a tiny amount of momentum is NOT proportional to doing any other character’s upB with a bit of extra momentum. You say every character deals with this, but I think it’s pretty clear that no other character is going to get gimped this hard from so little extra momentum, on such a routine recovery as this.

this may or may not be relevant

according to the frame by frame, kragg never even actually touched the pillar, just skipped directly from upspecial to ledgeslip

have we considered not up b’ing in hitstun, i feel like you could just use a different resource before going for up b

Firstly, this is ledgeslip not hitstun, you literally can’t do anything during hitstun, that’s why it’s called stun

Secondly, read above, I’m criticizing the design not saying the situation was unrecoverable, obviously there were lots of ways to survive here had I already known upb would behave this way

Thirdly, read above even more, it looks like this might be a screwed up interaction after some recent friction changes to floorhugging and not necessarily even intended at least at this percent

1, late at night and i meant to type out of hitstun.

2, as you said now that you now this is how it works you wont do it again.

3, trying to fh sweetspot absa bair at 80% should have the interaction be like this as holding down for high knockback moves should be heavily punishing. im pretty sure even if you di’d up and away you still would have been fine.

I wasn’t punished for floorhugging fair at 80 though, I was clearly not in any danger of falling the recovery, I was literally so fine that I angled my upb away from the stage rather than trying to stay close to it. All that happened was kraggs pillar spawned not at his feet, but elsewhere. In fact looking at the frame by frame, I never even actually touched the pillar at all, transitioning from ledgeslip to up special and back to ledgeslip.

Also to be clear, the punishment for holding down on absa fair when I shouldn’t would be that the floorhug fails and I DI out on a kill move, not that the floorhug should succeed and then I’m subject to obscure pillar jank

Why is this so controversial lol nobody should be gimped by their own move

im not falling for the rockraganda